Love and subtitles (screenplay) (unproduced screenplays)

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Josh - Please-please - you, of all people, are NOT rationalizing the use of "we see" in a spec, are you? I don't care if it's in the greatest scripts ever written. It's weak. In fact, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that this is probably the most common format pet peeve within the industry. So how can it help you to write that? I'm sure you know that most of the kids reading this blog are not established like John August or other guys who have won Oscars. For those guys, their scripts will be happily accepted and read and purchased despite its occassional writing missteps like "we see" BECAUSE they have an established track record.

There is not one single justifiable use of "we see" in a screenplay. I defy anyone to give me an example where one MUST to write "we see" because there's no other possible way to write it. In every single case, you can cut "we see" from the sentence and the same narrative point can be made. And as a bonus, readers won't get annoyed.

Elver - Thanks, man. Emily - You're writing a zombie script? I love it!

In your example, I would put them in caps. Crowds of people, and extremely minor supporting parts that are mentioned in passing, like someone getting out of a taxi, paying the driver, and running to some location. Driver wouldn't need to be in caps. Do you see what I mean?

Carlo - Thanks for that. Admittedly, I agree with Josh. I could've written that better. Unk - Thanks for that. People won't complain if they read one "we see" but even still, "we see" doesn't need to be in a spec even once. As I told Josh, "There is not one single justifiable use of 'we see' in a screenplay. But then again, I love a good debate.

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As someone who constantly struggles with the "igor, igor, igor" 7 for those of you with programs and constantly pushes the envelope of unfilmables, I can totally empathise with this fellow and MMs review. We're all works in progress and we can't ever think we have it nailed, cuz that's when our collective you-know-whats will get nailed to a wall.

I think Unk just justified it - Personally I don't use it just to avoid the ruckus, unless I'm told to put it in. But I certainly vehemently disagree that my one and only script that does have it, ONCE, in one place, is weak in any way because of that. I agree with what Unk wrote, and I maintain that it's not weak or lazy if used correctly. It's not only from my opinion, but from those I know, including many who work in the industry in other capacities.

I just recently read a short script from a friend in LA who's a pro, who's written for film and television and also used to be a professional reader before becoming a pro writer. And while he's a pro, he's not at August's level at least not yet and there are others. He's kinda a blunt guy in a fun way.

Now as for me, dude. I listen to you, I do. You know that. I hear what you're saying. But I also listen to Unk, I also listen to August, I also listen to my manager and friends, and I add that to my own hard experiences and then I make up my mind based on all of the above. So yeah, you convinced me that putting it in my specs is not worth the trouble, sure.

But I'm not convinced that using it judiciously is weak writing. Nor am I convinced that those who are established only do it because they are established. But listen, it is fun to debate this stuff, I gotta say.

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No debate from me Michael Mann uses it enough for everyone anyway There's a saying that if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Doesn't mean it's bad. Just that it's the kind of instrument that novices can easily use too much and in places where it doesn't work. So it's better to steer clear entirely, especially since there isn't anything in a script that cannot be written without the use of this little hammer. I mainly only argue with those I love about writing stuff, heh-heh. I ain't claiming to be Obi-Wan, tho'.

I'm not gonna get shit done today. I do think MM is correct when a newbie uses it throughout a screenplay instead of figuring out a way to conjure up up that same visual in a creative way.

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And while specs are certainly written to be read, that inherently is a problem with a lot of well written specs. I'm converting a spec over to a shooting script and while I'm not using WE SEE throughout the script, I have used it in a couple of places because I know the director is going to collaborate with his DP on every shot and angle. When we "suggest" a certain camera angle, movement, or shot with prose, I submit that it can get LOST in the translation. Now if you just want to sell a spec and move on -- COOL. It's just my own little way of saying, "Go ahead and do what you wanna do with everything else in the script but THIS particular angle, shot, or movement is crucial to this part of the story.

Don't fuck with it. But it's better than slapping a yellow post it there and at least my conscious is clear.

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I tried to save my baby. Hey, I'm not done! If you think Unk justified it, let's talk about it: "I personally use it when I want heavy emphasis on that particular thing in that particular scene. Heavier emphasis than any other sight or sound in the script and here and how, is where 'we see' or 'we hear' is misused so often. The point of an action line is to emphasize the sounds and the visuals. The mere fact that you've write a visual or a sound in an action line, in and of itself, emphasizes that visual or sound. The fact that you have an action means that that visual is crucial.

That's why it's been written. Writing "we see" anywhere is a wholly self-defeating purpose. I still defy anyone to give me one single example where "we see" was crucial and it could not be written any other way. Let me ask you another question, Josh. If he's okay with it, then certainly no worries.